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Context (Read 134 times)
Eegore
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Re: Context
Reply #15 - 11/24/18 at 08:29:13
 
"Why a law exists doesn't matter if you can twist the original intent to do something else?"

 Yes.  The 2nd Amendment allows us to bear arms, but for some reason we can't own ballistic warheads, or even rocket launchers or just an anti-aircraft gun.  Something to do with applying that Amendment to todays existing situation instead of re-writing that Amendment, and we all know how people here feel about re-writing that one.

 Posse Comitatus was implemented to apply to Americans, at the time, but as it is written it limits the use of military, without taking the steps being done now, of integrating and being used as domestic law enforcement.  

 CPB and ICE are domestic law enforcement.  No invasion stops that from being true.

 CBP and ICE are getting assistance from the US military because nobody that allocates resources considers this an invasion.  No amount of typing invasion and complaining to your friends changes that.

 So if CBP and ICE are domestic law enforcement, and the military is integrating and implementing resource allocation as designated by ICE and CBP, the US military is assisting domestic law enforcement.

 If they said it was drug interdiction then it would be a different story, because Posse Comitatus as its applied today, because drug trafficking changed after the law was written, allows for US military resources to be allocated without House direct involvement for drug interdiction.  

 So keep crying invasion and see if that works, or see if calling it drug interdiction, which is permissable, allows for more resource allocation.  
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Context
Reply #16 - 11/24/18 at 08:29:26
 
Are they now?
I wonder why.
And since they were OFFERED asylum by Mexico, and some took it, and since it was offered and not accepted in Mexico, we have no obligation.
Maybe you don't understand the difference between immigration policy and asylum seekers and their needs.
I'm not gonna try to deliver that instruction.
If you're ESCAPING from a place where you are being persecuted by the government,
There is a start...
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Context
Reply #17 - 11/26/18 at 01:08:09
 
Doing the JOB of ice or bp is outside the rules. Protecting them from attacks by Foreigners isn't.

Why are you so determined read a law that was intended to protect Americans from the government using the military against them in a way that limits our ability to control the influx of people into our country ?
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Eegore
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Re: Context
Reply #18 - 11/30/18 at 05:57:05
 
"Why are you so determined read a law that was intended to protect Americans from the government using the military against them in a way that limits our ability to control the influx of people into our country ? "

 I'm not.  I agree with you.

 However the actual things that are happening at the border, and how the President is handling the implementation through the House reflects through actual actions, procedures and orders is that the US Military is not defending against an invasion.  Call it one all day, tha actual procedures being used today is not a response to an invasion, but by all means keep saying it is.

 The actions, procedures and orders of the current, and past administrations is that the US Military is not to integrate and directly assist domestic law enforcement, like CBP and ICE with their duties unless it is through drug interdiction.  You can say that's not how Posse Comitatus reads all day and that still doesn't change how the US Military is ordered to integrate with domestic law enforcement.

 When the border wall rush took place and the gas started being disbursed the enlisted personnel were ordered to move barriers only.  That action reflects that the administrative section do not consider this an invasion - even if people at keyboards across the country say it is.  

 I indicated that it is illegal for the US Military to take on law enforcement duties:

"its illegal if they take on law enforcement duties."

 What part of that is indicating that the US Military can not protect CBP or ICE?  They can, if it falls within the ROE and isn't them doing the job of CBP or ICE.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Context
Reply #19 - 11/30/18 at 11:18:16
 
Explain how you're able to infer their belief about it Not being an invasion because of just moving barriers.

 Let's see, people rushing your border, UNinvited..
You're repelling WHAT when you use gas and barriers?
My DICTIONARY calls that an
Invasion.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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LostArtist
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Re: Context
Reply #20 - 11/30/18 at 12:40:01
 
how many rushed the border, what, like 500??   into a country of 370 million.....  

oh no!!!!!    we're being overrun!!!!    Roll Eyes    get a new dictionary
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Eegore
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Re: Context
Reply #21 - 11/30/18 at 13:08:39
 
"My DICTIONARY calls that an
Invasion."


 Well your DICTIONARY isn't what's used to analyze the situation.  Maybe looking in more detail to Title 10, U.S. Code Sections 161–168 will help clarify how these situations are evaluated.  Then look into the Joint Chiefs of Staff force integration models and tell me how in any way the current situation is being treated as an invasion.

 Keep calling it an invasion that doesn't change the response, orders or actions that have actually happened.  I do not feel that when enlisted personnel are ordered to assist moving barriers, and not to engage, assist or implement ROE during the collective rush towards a fence line is a mobilization of forces to repel an invasion.

 That would be defined as a logistical support action, not a repelling force action.  The US Military is not fighting an invasion, also it is getting permission to assist in limited capacity domestic law enforcement.  Obviously everyone, including the President is doing this wrong way, they should just grab a DICTIONARY instead of using the current methods we are witnessing right now.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Context
Reply #22 - 11/30/18 at 16:41:57
 
Keep calling it an invasion that doesn't change the response, orders or actions that have actually happened.  

They may not be TREATING them as an invading force, because they are not armed.
Doesn't change the FACTS.


Any group from outside, who have no right or invitation to enter, Are By definition
An Invading Force.
If they weren't Trying To invade, tear gas and barriers wouldn't be necessary.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: Context
Reply #23 - 11/30/18 at 16:53:22
 
Serowbot wrote on 11/24/18 at 08:16:17:
These "invaders" are stopping at the border to apply for asylum, and asking for jobs... Did the Nazis do that?...

They did not, willingly, ’stop’ to ask.

If they were not stopped by, gate/wall/fence/etc.
They would have marched right in.

And many, were not hindered by a, gate/wall/fence/etc.
as they tried to defeat that thing,
and invade, any way they could.
before being repelled, by humane methods.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Context
Reply #24 - 12/01/18 at 06:27:12
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 11/30/18 at 16:41:57:
Keep calling it an invasion that doesn't change the response, orders or actions that have actually happened.  

They may not be TREATING them as an invading force, because they are not armed.
Doesn't change the FACTS.


Any group from outside, who have no right or invitation to enter, Are By definition
An Invading Force.
If they weren't Trying To invade, tear gas and barriers wouldn't be necessary.


Imagine a scenario where the illegals were predominantly likely Republican voters. We would not be having this conversation. A wall would already be up. Perhaps conservatives should take a page from the leftist and begin a fake news campaign demonstrating the illegals will vote Trump in 2020.
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