If we did a proper case study of say a random group of 1000 from the 800000 DACA's, and projected their lifetime relevant actuarial data to see what the 'cost' to the US would be I'm certain you'd find a significant net gain that would continue to increase logarithmically down the generations.

 That may be if we only used DACA information and didn't include law enforcement for all the other immigrants utilizing US resources, whether they be legal, working or non-working.  There's a tremendous amount of cost involved in maintaining the healthcare for immigrants alone.

"But the point is that to refer to illegals as ultimately 'costing' anything is an economically unfeasible proposition."

 Why is that?  US Citizens cost money, why would illegal immigrants be excluded from infrastructure, healthcare, law enforcement, public safety and general public funds cost evaluations?

Visa overstay, that IS a joke.

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 01/10/19 at 08:41:09:



yeah, we all know how you feel about facts

it's FEAR

What does that even mean? What's fear? What do you fear? Why do you fear a wall?  

where NATIVE born are a higher cost than illegal or legal immigrants
Prove that cause I don't believe it. Are you telling me I 'cost' more to the American taxpayer than an illegal alien or a typical legal immigrant, maybe a DACA kid for example. Explain that.

oh, and site some references for fuc ks sake you savage.
Why? If you disagree with it you'll just claim the site is a ring wing propaganda machine and ignore it.

WebsterMark wrote on 01/10/19 at 13:53:44:


is it?    you know it is don't you?  

"but mainly only if you emphasize the cost of education"

 I disagree.  Medical care is considerably more expensive than education.  A single ED visit can run into the tens of thousands, inpatient hospital stays even more, and pregnancy care even more, all of which are guaranteed services no matter your citizenship.

 Less than six percent of immigrant medical care is repaid by taxable immigrant work, and the level of repayment by illegal immigrants is so low it's not even measurable by standard means.

You put up "your facts" and I'll put up "my facts".

The reality is, as every good sales guy knows, we all make emotional decisions and justify them afterwards with selected "facts". And that is a fact.

Below are more of my facts which the lefties on here will ignore and no doubt attack the source.

Let's be honest about our motives. I support a wall because I'm fearful of the US turning more and more into a slightly more economically prosperous Mexico. There are plenty of places in this country where you can't tell if you're in the US or Mexico. I think the USA and the world will suffer because of that.

The lefties on here are afraid a successful wall will entrench Trump thru 2024 and whomever after him (Nikki Haley) for the next 4 years.  

So lets be honest and stop pretending facts are what's driving us because none of us live on the border. Why are you so adamantly against a wall? And don't tell me its money or because you believe drones will do a better job.

More facts.
Illegal Immigration: Democrats and the mainstream press accuse President Donald Trump of manufacturing a crisis at the border. The numbers tell another story.

As soon as the words "growing humanitarian and security crisis at our Southern border" left Trump's lips in his Oval Office address this week, Democrats and media "fact-checkers" were trying to dispel it as a deliberate lie.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Trump "must stop manufacturing a crisis, and must reopen the government."

Border Crossings Climbing

NPR's "fact check" — like countless others — dismissed Trump's claim as false because "illegal border crossings in the most recent fiscal year (ending in September 2018) were actually lower than in either 2016 or 2014."

What they aren't telling you is border patrol agents apprehended more than 100,000 people trying to enter the country illegally in just October and November of last year. Or that that number is way up from the same two months the year before.

Nor do they mention that last year, the border patrol apprehended more than half a million people trying to get into the country illegally. And that number, too, is up from the year before.

Downplaying Number Of Illegals

Trump's critics certainly don't bother to mention that those figures only count illegals the border patrol caught. It does not count the ones who eluded border patrol agents and got into the country.


The Department of Homeland Security claims that about 20% of illegal border crossers make it into the country. Other studies, however, say border agents fail to apprehend as much as 50% of illegal crossers.

Even at the lower percentage, that means that 104,000 illegals made it into the country in 2018 alone.

Is that not a crisis at the border?

Massive Illegal Population

Pelosi and company also don't bother to mention the fact that there are already between 12 million and 22 million illegals — depending on which study you use — in the country today.

Let's put that number in perspective.

At the high end, it means that the illegal population in the U.S. is larger than the entire population of countries like Syria, Chile, the Netherlands and Ecuador. Even if the number is just 12 million, that's still more than the entire population of Sweden, Switzerland, Hong Kong, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Ireland and New Zealand.

It is, in short, a massive number.

Here's more perspective. The U.S. is virtually alone in the world in having such a large share of its population in the country illegally.

An analysis by the nonpartisan ProCon.org found that in 2010 almost 4% of the U.S. population was in the country illegally. The average for 13 other countries it analyzed was just 1.3%.

In France, for example, illegals make up just 0.9% of its population. It's 0.3% in Germany, 0.8% in Spain, and 0.5% in the Netherlands.

Isn't having millions in the country illegally, with thousands joining them every day, not a crisis at the border?

Illegals and Crime

Critics also complain that Trump overstated the risk of illegal immigrants committing crimes. They all point to a report from the Cato Institute, a pro-immigration libertarian think tank. Cato did a statistical analysis of census data and concluded that incarceration rates for Hispanic illegals were slightly lower than those of the native-born.

But the Center for Immigration Studies looked at federal crime statistics. It found that noncitizens accounted for more than 20% of federal convictions, even though they make up just 8.4% of the population.

"It is almost certain that a majority of noncitizens convicted of federal crimes are illegal immigrants," said Steven Camarota of the CIS.

Texas also has been monitoring crimes committed by illegals. It reports that from 2011 to 2018, it booked 186,000 illegal aliens. Police charged them with a total of 292,000 crimes. Those included 539 murders, 32,000 assaults, 3,426 sexual assaults, and almost 3,000 weapons charges.

Even if Cato is right that the crime rate among Hispanic illegals is a bit lower than for natives, that's cold comfort to victims of these crimes, which would not have happened had the border been more secure. They would likely agree with Trump about their being a crisis at the border.