YES THEY ARE!  or are you admitting to your bigotry???

No, they are not.

I'm admitting to being the exact same kind of person you are.

WebsterMark wrote on 01/17/19 at 14:36:53:


uh huh.... you are really really really nothing like me, well, on here maybe, but hey, I guess IRL (in real life for you fuddy duddies) anything is possible, but I really, really, really doubt you are anything like me, you're probably a successful salesman but are nice to your family and friends, even though chasing that last dollar is what really gets a grunt from your gut...   but sure, you are charitable and supportive, as best you can with what you have to yours and your friends, maybe even a hand out to a bum on the street (maybe??) idk, I'd still give you the benefit of the doubt as being a decent average person irl

Eegore wrote on 01/17/19 at 14:40:07:


Not really. Think about purchasing a product with very specific specification. When faced with multiple selections, its easy to factually toss out the ones that are on the low range of meeting spec. Once you get to a point where the specs are all met or each are superior in factors that are equal in importance, your decision is emotional. In fact, at that point, your decision is based on your account manager, a commercial, the name of the company, the color, the shape of the packaging, if they bought you lunch etc....

Now look at this debate. There are many people who say a wall is absolutely needed. Some of those people live on the border, some work protecting the border etc....   You've minimized those opinions and stick with your line that those who do the work should decide. Yet, you only factor in the opinions of those who do the work that you emotionally agree with. You refuse to see the obvious connection that many who say a wall is not needed are the ones who's career is border security. A wall is a very visible reminder their efforts were not enough. No one wants to be replaced, no one wants to be told they aren't doing the job. That influences their decision. Consider that a little closer.

Reading  your post and piecing together what you do, I suspect the level of work you do is similar to mine. I just spent 5 days at a conference sitting in on specifications committees and adding input to specs that all of you on here are impacted from. As someone who recognizes this phenomenon of emotional decisions in others, I recognize when I fall into the same mode, but it can't be stopped for long.  

"You've minimized those opinions and stick with your line that those who do the work should decide."

 Incorrect.  I have very specifically said the decisions should be comprehensive:

"Put a wall where it belongs, let the private property owners have input, let the National Guard have input, let people doing the job have input and let the people who have never ever been there have input,"

 I am saying that the current complete physical wall is suggested by people who do not do the job.  This means CBP, DHS, Private land owners etc. do not get input in a cost-per output ratio, but you already said money isn't part of the equation - even though the government shutdown indicates otherwise - so we just need to agree to disagree as I am taking cost into account in my assessment.

"You refuse to see the obvious connection that many who say a wall is not needed are the ones who's career is border security."

 Incorrect, other than DHS, ICE and CBP the other referenced entities are not responsible for border security.  Private land owners, temporarily assigned military, DEA are not border security and have consistent border crossing reducing results.  Army Corp of Engineers cost per square foot analysis is not border security, they just don't think boring through rock in untraveled mountains is a good use of their time or resources.  

 One of the things you refuse to accept is wall maintenance is more resource intensive, CBP would need more staff, not less.  This idea that an unmanned wall will work now when it hasn't for centuries is odd to me.

but you already said money isn't part of the equation - even though the government shutdown indicates otherwise - so we just need to agree to disagree as I am taking cost into account in my assessment.

Of course money is an issue, but let's be honest, the border security money is meaningless compared to the entire federal budget and/or compared to the cost of illegal immigration.

I've got no problem with a wall and enhanced electronic and other security measures. I have no problem recognizing you don't need to put a wall on the side of a cliff if that's where the border line is.

My point has always been, relying primarily on people and electronics is a major flaw because a President Harris or Booker would suspend those operations. A majority liberal congress would pull funding.

WebsterMark wrote on 01/17/19 at 15:24:11:


you didn't understand what I said.  but it's not a common phrase so it's my fault...   a grunt from your gut isn't "after thinking I want a healthier work/life balance I decided......"   a grunt from our gut is that kick of motivation that makes you go... oh, well...  and makes you think about it. it's kind of your muse, it's what inspires you to think about it, even if the ultimate answer is no.

oh, and you proved my point, you want the most money for the least amount of work, aka chasing that last dollar (squeezing it all out) , that's why you're a salesman instead of someone who actually does the real work.   I bet you can remember every time someone offered you money.....