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Beefing up the Clutch (Read 1561 times)
justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #105 - 02/01/22 at 16:36:02
 
What we don't know about that Could lead to a problem is
We don't know the comparative hardness of the sintered versus billet parts.
Might need to heat treat the new part.
Engineer time.
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TheSneeze
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #106 - 02/01/22 at 18:07:05
 
I can try to get the machine shop to provide Material Test Reports on the material used, if they are available.  Usually the reports need to be asked for in advance.  Here is a screen grab from Mcmaster-Carr where you can get it.

Material      AR500 Carbon Steel
Shape      Sheet and Bar
Shape Type      Sheets
Thickness      1/2"
Thickness Tolerance      -0.01" to 0.03"
Tolerance Rating      Standard
Width      6"
Width Tolerance      -1/8" to 1/8"
Length      6"
Length Tolerance      -1/8" to 1/8"
Yield Strength      200,000 psi
Fabrication      Hot Rolled
Heat Treatment      Hardened
Hardness      Rockwell C48
Hardness Rating      Very Hard
Appearance      Plain
Temperature Range      Not Rated
Flatness Tolerance      Not Rated
Coefficient of Thermal Expansion      7.3 × 10^-6
Elongation      12%
Material Composition, Boron      0.003%
Material Composition, Carbon      0.31%
Material Composition, Chromium      0.75%
Material Composition      0.95%
Material Composition      0.75%
Material Composition, Nickel      1%
Material Composition, Phosphorus      0.025%
Material Composition, Silicon      0.65%
Material Composition, Sulfur      0.005%
Material Composition, Iron      Remainder
Warning Message      Physical and mechanical properties are not guaranteed. They are intended only as a basis for comparison and not for design purposes.
Certificate      Material Certificate with Traceable Lot Number
Additional Specifications      SDS
RoHS      RoHS 3 (2015/863/EU) Compliant
REACH      REACH (EC 1907/2006) (07/08/2021, 219 SVHC) Compliant
DFARS      Specialty Metals COTS-Exempt
Country of Origin      Varies
Schedule B      721119.7050
ECCN      EAR99
Exceptional hardness makes AR500 carbon steel more resistant to wear and impact than other carbon steel. And with a yield strength of 200,000 psi, it’s also stronger. That's why it's often used to protect blades and buckets on heavy equipment, or to line truck beds and chutes. While it’s too hard to bend or form, you can cut it with plasma, oxyacetylene, lasers, water jets, or abrasive cutoff saws.
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Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

'87 LS650h Savage Street Tracker (destroyed by fire)
'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribut
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TheSneeze
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #107 - 02/01/22 at 18:14:06
 
Everything I have heard about sintered metal from the metallurgist at the machine shop I am using, to several mechanical design engineers I have met through my career (who are now friends), the part strength can very widely and is not consistent.  This would lend credence to the fact that some stock ones have failed without increasing the force being applied.  The AR500 material is far and wide much stronger.
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Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

'87 LS650h Savage Street Tracker (destroyed by fire)
'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribut
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justin_o_guy2
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What happened?

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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #108 - 02/01/22 at 18:21:16
 
Heat Treatment      Hardened
Hardness      Rockwell C48
Hardness Rating      Very Hard

As long as the handling doesn't change its properties, it looks like a winner.
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TheSneeze
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #109 - 02/04/22 at 14:06:02
 
Okay, guys and gals...  I picked up the new parts from the machine shop today.  Yes, it went that quick!  As promised, I am posting very detailed pictures of how they turned out.  Laser cut finish is never perfectly smooth - but before any of you start to tout stress risers, I will post strength measurements in comparison to the stock, sintered part (also as promised).  This material is by far and away a much stronger alloy than any sintered metal could yield.  So here are the pictures from all angles, after which I will post my findings, pro and con.  The testing will come a little later when I have a chance to set up the method and document the results.

What I am trying to do here is to be as open and up front on these parts as humanly possible.  I am not going to spend any time trying to sell these to anyone, or get into engineering or scientific arguments trying to justify what these are or will do.  If you want to buy one (or more) great.  If not, I will not try to convince you.  My main goal here is to try and solve a common problem with our Savages, and help the community.  No, I am not going into business with these.  So don't try and force me to put on my stainless steel underwear to keep you from chewing my a$$ off about how you think about these parts.  On with the pictures...

Stock part on the left, AR500 part on the right.
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20220204_1347431.jpg

Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

'87 LS650h Savage Street Tracker (destroyed by fire)
'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribut
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TheSneeze
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #110 - 02/04/22 at 14:06:47
 
Stock part on the left, AR500 part on the right.
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20220204_1347551.jpg

Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

'87 LS650h Savage Street Tracker (destroyed by fire)
'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribut
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TheSneeze
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #111 - 02/04/22 at 14:08:44
 
Stacked comparison.  Stock part on the bottom, AR500 part on the top.
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20220204_1348301.jpg

Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

'87 LS650h Savage Street Tracker (destroyed by fire)
'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribut
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TheSneeze
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #112 - 02/04/22 at 14:09:36
 
second stacked view.  Stock part on the bottom, AR500 part on the top.
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20220204_1348461.jpg

Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

'87 LS650h Savage Street Tracker (destroyed by fire)
'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribut
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TheSneeze
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #113 - 02/04/22 at 14:10:11
 
Inside finish view
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20220204_1349411.jpg

Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

'87 LS650h Savage Street Tracker (destroyed by fire)
'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribut
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #114 - 02/04/22 at 14:37:08
 
Here are my initial findings:

VISUAL INSPECTION
The parts have been through a vibratory deburr process (a lot like rock tumbling).  This has smoothed out the exterior surfaces.  Vibratory deburr process does not get inside holes.  This is why there are more striations in the ID.  With laser cutting, these marks are always present.  The thicker the material, the more pronounced they are.  Hardness of the material has an affect on the surface finish as well.  The cup milled into them was performed after the vibe finish was applied.  I found some of the cup milling had left a fine burr around the top edge of the feature.  I filed down these burrs.  Some of the batch I needed to scrap due to some bad striations that reduced the cross section of the part.  Again, this is not uncommon with laser cutting.  Overall the visual appearance was much better than I was expecting with my personal experience running a fab shop with a laser.

DIMENSIONAL INSPECTION
Although I was told the part fitment on the shaft would be tightened up more than the stock part, this did not happen.  The double D hole is within .001" to .002" of the stock part.  The play when installed on the shaft is the same as the stock part.  This disappointed me, but is easily correctable with DBM's use of some feeler gage material inserted between the part and the shaft.  The cup feature is right on in regards to the position in relation to the double D hole.  I found the depth to be within a few thousandths, but I was using the depth gage on my calipers which has a flat end, trying to measure a round bottomed feature.  Not the most exact method.  I will try to use a better set up using my drop indicator with a round tip when I get to the strength testing.  As you can see in the comparison picture (stacked), the overall length does not match the stock part - it is shorter.  This has no effect on the part function in any way.  It will still hold the return spring.  Some of the striations on the inside of the double D hole needed to be filed down a little bit.  The parts are hard, but not as hard as a file.  I used a round/flat jeweler's file to do this.  The striation burrs were just big enough to prevent the parts from sliding onto the shaft.  Once removed, the play was discovered, and found to be the same as the stock part.

I will post up the strength test results as soon as I have the data.  My plans are not to ship any of them until I am finished with all of my evaluations.  I am very confident that these parts are a lot stronger than the stock ones, based upon the physical properties of the material alone.  The strength tests will prove that.  I ordered 25 parts, the shop made 30.  After visual and dimensional inspections, I scrapped 5.  Three for severe striations that compromised the wall thickness of the part, and two due to the fact they would not fit over the shaft (no matter how much filing was done).  So there you have it. I absolutely will be running one of these on my hot rodded Savage motor.  If anyone else wants to, just hit me up.  If you don't, that's fine too.  The money I have spent on this manufacturing run was worth it to me just to solve the slipping clutch issue that would happen on MY bike.  If this will help out more of you, great.

I am open to comments and friendly discussion/questions.  If you feel like being negative, just don't ask for one.  Peace, out.
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Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

'87 LS650h Savage Street Tracker (destroyed by fire)
'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribut
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Dan P
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #115 - 02/04/22 at 15:24:14
 
Looking good !
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #116 - 02/04/22 at 16:29:30
 
The look really nice.......amazing how accurately the part was copied.

Having to install a shim doesn't scare me....maybe I can just solder or JB Weld it onto the shaft to make it permanent.
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TheSneeze
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #117 - 02/04/22 at 16:49:50
 
In the case of a failure that would make it necessary to replace your shaft by cutting it in two to save your side cover.

I just tried to set up a torque test.  I found a 27mm impact socket fit perfectly.  I started at 20 ft lbs, and increased each pull by 5 ft lbs.  At 35 ft lbs, the shaft started to turn in the lever!  So now I have a used clutch lever coming from Fleabay.  I need to find a better way to secure the shaft, not using the lever.  I think I just discovered the next weakest link!

EDIT - this first test was using a stock part to try and achieve a base line breakage point.  I have not done a torque test on the AR500 parts yet.
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« Last Edit: 02/04/22 at 18:27:02 by TheSneeze »  

20220204_1632581.jpg

Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

'87 LS650h Savage Street Tracker (destroyed by fire)
'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribut
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Armen
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #118 - 02/04/22 at 16:57:53
 
Amazing work! Good on you!
Are you planning on having a few made and selling them?
I’ll place my order now if you are.
Thanks
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Re: Beefing up the Clutch
Reply #119 - 02/04/22 at 17:10:32
 
Reply #114

Thirty were made, five were scrapped.  Twenty five are available (well, minus one for me!)
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Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

'87 LS650h Savage Street Tracker (destroyed by fire)
'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribut
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