SuzukiSavage.com - Carb rebuild continues

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Carb rebuild continues
07/22/23 at 11:08:10

So finally sat down at work bench yesterday to get back to work on the ongoing carb rebuild for Ryca bike. I had previously disassembled the entire carb, ordered a worthless rebuild kit online, returned it and got what appears to be a good one. Cleaned all the little passage ways and such with a guitar string and was starting to look at reassembly. I decided to just give the carb body a quick dip in an isopropyl alcohol bath for a final cleaning.

I will intervene at this point to say I completely disassembled the entire carb, even removing the throttle plate. So what I found when I pulled the body out of bath was a nylon washer I guess had apparently been stuck to inside someplace and it was now laying in the throttle body. A look at the parts diagram reveals that the carb body with the throttle plate is listed as one assembly and as far as I can tell no nylon washer is listed in parts list or referenced in carb body on diagram.

Washer is basically .5" OD and .3" ID. I suspect it may have been on the bar the throttle plate is inserted in as it's ID matches the bar. Does anyone know where this washer goes?

In addition, the 2 screws that hold the throttle plate into the bar, one is missing, long story about don't let your friend help you disassemble a carb, does anyone know what that screw dimensions are. I know it is a JIS (but not necessary for replace) and assume metric, it is pretty small, but I obviously need to replace it. I had to drill the missing one out, which was not fun.

Photos show, washer, where I found it and bar/screw for throttle plate.

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Carb_Parts.jpg

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DragBikeMike

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Re: Carb rebuild continues
Reply #1 - 07/22/23 at 17:26:06

That is one clean carburetor. Nice job. Cool

I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but you should not have removed those throttle plate screws. They are special screws with hollowed out tips to allow staking. Staking is mandatory in this particular application since a loose screw would be catastrophic. You can recover but it will be tricky. You will need to devise some sort of tool to stake the screws once they are installed. You must be very careful not to bend the shaft.

Another problem is the threaded holes in the shaft. If you did not grind off the staked end of the screws before you removed them, the end of the screw probably tore up the internal threads in the shaft.

See how the tips of the screws are staked. You really don't want to remove these screws.

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Throttle_Plate_Screw_Staking.jpg

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DragBikeMike Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 4471 Honolulu	Re: Carb rebuild continues Reply #2 - 07/22/23 at 17:27:51 I suspect the mysterious washer goes behind the eClip on the throttle shaft. Like this. Good luck.
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TheSneeze

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Re: Carb rebuild continues
Reply #3 - 07/23/23 at 10:25:31

Here is a tool I made to "re-flare" the hollow tip screws used for throttle plates. Apparently having one back out and get sucked into the engine would be a bad thing... anyway, I picked up a small channel lock plier, ground off the serrations on one jaw, and JB Welded the appropriate sized ball bearing on the other jaw. The ball bearing flares the hollow screw tip perfectly. Make sure the throat depth is adequate on the pliers before you buy them.

Edit - I had to make this tool for a set of four carbs that needed to be un-ganged for rebuilding. The throttle plates had to be removed to get the individual carb bodies apart. For a single carb it's probably best to leave the throttle plate alone.

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Every twenty minute job is a stripped thread away from being a three day ordeal.

'87 LS650h Savage Street Tracker (destroyed by fire)
'86 LS650g Savage (parts bike)
'81 Kawasaki KZ750e ELR tribut

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LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10801 Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Carb rebuild continues Reply #4 - 07/23/23 at 11:21:50 That’s the way to improvise. 👍
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Re: Carb rebuild continues
Reply #5 - 07/24/23 at 21:05:01

Guys, Thanks for the responses. So, in general I am pretty good about research and such, but on the issue of this, and don't get me wrong I grasp everything about the results of what a failure of those screws on the throttle plate could present.

But in reality, If you look in the factory manual on rebuild, the removal of the plate and associated is clearly outlined. I get the complicated aspect of it's install and everything associated with the crushing of the screw. But the manual does tell you to remove it and mentions nothing about that aspect.

Pages 4-5 tells you about removing the throttle plate and 4-7 tells you about re-install (with Locktite) but no mention of the crush aspect to the screw and mention of potential for damage. This is a major flaw in the factory service manual, maybe Suzuki should give me a new carb body assembly (just joking) but they do state that removal with a Locktite reinstall is sufficient.

Thoughts on this would be appreciated. I thought I had made a major FU on this but I was just following OEM Manual instructions. I can see that the screws were staked after the fact, but no mention was made of this in the OEM manual, so how are you supposed to know. That would explain the problem that came up with removal.

I drilled the bad screw out on drill press and removed any imbedded threads with a tap. The screw goes in and tightens, I would like to assume I am ok per service manuals instructions.

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Carb-manual.jpg

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SoC Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 516 New Jersey Gender:	Re: Carb rebuild continues Reply #6 - 07/24/23 at 21:07:33 So anyway, what I am asking is am I missing something?
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DragBikeMike

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Re: Carb rebuild continues
Reply #7 - 07/25/23 at 02:39:59

Well, I guess it's time for me to eat a little crow pie. You are absolutely correct, the FSM does say to remove the throttle plate, doesn't mention grinding the stakes off prior to removal (to prevent damage to the internal threads in the shaft), and does say to reinstall with Loctite.

I apologize if I've caused you any grief. My comments were based on past experience.

Looks like you didn't miss anything. What compelled you to remove the throttle plate?

Hey Lancer, I'm lovin your tool. I gotta make me one of those.

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TheSneeze Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 1313 Northern Nevada Gender:	Re: Carb rebuild continues Reply #8 - 07/25/23 at 08:04:35 Lancer??? (cough, cough)
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SoC

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Re: Carb rebuild continues
Reply #9 - 07/25/23 at 09:34:36

When it comes to carbs and rebuild I have basically no experience, did a lawn mower once with factory kit and it was much simpler than the one on our bikes. I was just following the manual for guidance, sort of going step by step. Figured that way I could not get into any trouble.

The carb on this bike was really pretty bad, but externally looked almost like new. I am not sure what the young guy who had it did to it, but it had some serious gunk and actual rust on some of the internal parts. I was just trying to assure everything was addressed in refurbishing it.

He said he had disassembled carb and cleaned it the previous year, that it had been gunked up and when he went to start it last year it wouldn't start and he did not want to go through it all again. But to be honest, I don't think he really ever rode the bike much. It has some questionable fab, The one thing that was a tell for me, is the rear tire is rubbing on the bolt for the exhaust mount bracket which had to be pretty unsettling when riding. That is because the gas shocks don't allow clearance for the muffler. He may have rode it though and added the shocks later, don't know.

I will try reassemble according to manual and see what happens.

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LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10801 Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Carb rebuild continues Reply #10 - 07/25/23 at 11:05:17 TheSneeze wrote on 07/25/23 at 08:04:35: Lancer??? (cough, cough) That’s not my tool, it belongs to TheSneeze.
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