SuzukiSavage.com - Finn Hammer's Savage

FinnHammer Full Member Offline Posts: 240 Denmark Gender:	Re: Finn Hammer's Savage Reply #330 - 07/03/24 at 12:17:51 The finish in the bore is very shiny, with very faint cross hatch. Wonder how that will aid in bedding the piston rings? New flattop piston on the way. Gotta get rid of that a-clonkin'.
Back to top	IMG_20240703_204339_NR.jpg An expert is a person who has made all possible mistakes within a narrow field - Niels Bohr IP Logged

Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18313 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Finn Hammer's Savage Reply #331 - 07/04/24 at 03:43:40 Well isn't that cool! I have never seen a brand new cylinder - only well used ones! It will be interesting to see how much difference it makes - and what kind of wear patterns are on the piston/cylinder you remove.
Back to top	Someday I will be old......But not today! IP Logged

FinnHammer

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 240
Denmark
Gender: male

Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #332 - 07/04/24 at 12:44:31

The cylinder I use had a lot of wear, as displayed by the diameter step, up high where the piston rings reverse direction.
I had to hone that step away, because the flat top piston rides higher in the cylinder, and I did not want the piston rings of the new piston to hit that step. I used 160 grit stones to do it.
This created a rather coarse cylinder surface, and frankly now I fear that it wore the piston down before setting into a smooth surface.

So I am also very interested in pulling the head off and see the surface.
I will not have time to do it before winter, probably.

Back to top

An expert is a person who has made all possible mistakes within a narrow field - Niels Bohr

IP Logged

Dave

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18313
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male

Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #333 - 07/04/24 at 12:51:36

FinnHammer wrote on 07/04/24 at 12:44:31:

So I am also very interested in pulling the head off and see the surface.
I will not have time to do it before winter, probably.

Well dang! I have a few rainy days here, and I have decided to pull my 95mm Wiseco DR650 piston out and try the 94mm Flat Top. I was curious what kind of clearance you had.......I will go back into this thread and see if you listed it earler.

My cylinder was not too bad, and I can get a 0.003" feeler gauge in with a bit of coaxing (it doesn't just drop right through) - I cannot get a 0.004" feeler gauge in.

Back to top

Someday I will be old......But not today!

IP Logged

FinnHammer Full Member Offline Posts: 240 Denmark Gender:	Re: Finn Hammer's Savage Reply #334 - 07/05/24 at 02:17:26 You will find it at the bottom of page 10 in this thread
Back to top	An expert is a person who has made all possible mistakes within a narrow field - Niels Bohr IP Logged

DragBikeMike

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4470
Honolulu

Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #335 - 07/05/24 at 23:02:47

Finn, the clearance you recorded previously seems OK to me, but you never can tell. It will be very interesting to see what sort of clearance you end up with. A brand-new OEM cylinder matched with a new Wiseco forged piston, I don't think that combination has been tried yet. Let us know what you end up with.

This noise seems to have you worried. Not having the benefit of actually hearing the noise, I can only speculate. But your clearance recorded previously was not unreasonable. However, you did report that you massaged the top of the cylinder vigorously with a 160 grit. I don't think your previous readings reflect that area. The new OEM cylinder should be straight as an arrow, and the new Wiseco piston should fit in there nicely. If anything, you will need to be concerned about too little clearance. Quick & dirty checks with a .0025" feeler gage will be in order.

As I recall, you did some unorthodox stuff when you set up your 13-plate clutch, and you also converted to the overdrive oil pump gears. Is there any chance that the offending noise is coming from the clutch or the oil pump drive?

Back to top

Knowledge is power.

IP Logged

FinnHammer

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 240
Denmark
Gender: male

Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #336 - 07/06/24 at 05:53:58

Yes, Mike, the sound has me worried. Not so much anymore, since it appears the engine is not about to blow up, anyway.
So now it is more like an irritation. And a disappointment. I thought I could have done better.

About the oil pump, the sound is definitely too big to come from there, the clutch, on the contrary.... It sounds like it could very well be a primary transmission thing, but difficult to evaluate when the engine is running. I will adress it one thing at the time.

The honing with 160 grit left the cylinder as out of round as it was when I started, and more cone shaped than I would like. I seem to recall that it was about the size that is deemed as worn out according to Clymers manual.

But hey! Despite the sound, It runs well so I can take my time to get it perfect.

Back to top

An expert is a person who has made all possible mistakes within a narrow field - Niels Bohr

IP Logged

FinnHammer

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 240
Denmark
Gender: male

Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #337 - 03/02/25 at 06:41:44

Time to pick up where I left some 7 months ago.

The Tesla coil installation that took all my time amounted to become a big and unexpected challenge, which has now been resolved.

So why not get around to good ole thumper, and work on the cafe conversion, but where to start?
Take it from the start, front end first, and thus I just finished lacing and truing the new front wheel, with black high shouldered allu rims, 1.75" x 19" to fit a Dunlop Roadmaster TT100 3.6 x 19 tire for that authentic period look. And here I am talking about my own personal period, which was back in the early nineteen seventies.

The rim is black, and thus fragile. I fear that I should scratch the black coating off the edges of the rim. If tire levers with some plastic or rubber protection on them is available, I would invite pointers to them.

What do you guys do, to avoid ruining your precious allu rims, take it to the tyre shop and let them mount the tires? Probably the best way to also have it balanced in the same run.

Cheers, Finn Hammer

Back to top

IMG_20250302_151009_NR.jpg

An expert is a person who has made all possible mistakes within a narrow field - Niels Bohr

IP Logged

DragBikeMike

Serious Thumper

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 4470
Honolulu

Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #338 - 03/02/25 at 18:30:30

Welcome back Finn. Can't wait to hear more about your motor. When do you think you will have that new cylinder installed?

You might find these two methods for tire installation useful. The one utilizing a plastic covered wire rope looks like it would work good for you. Just need to use a soft pad or implement to get the bead started so as not to mar your beautiful black finish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I74KQ4601iA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooZePMY2EAQ

Back to top

Knowledge is power.

IP Logged

Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 5399 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: Finn Hammer's Savage Reply #339 - 03/02/25 at 22:44:36 Italian style rims , Borrani- Akront , shows your impeccable tastes , while the Dunlop K81 shows your age. It looks awesome with black hub and I think that’s the first time I’ve ever seen a black Italian style rim. What brand is the rim ? I’m sure I’m not the only one watching.
Back to top	The Topic Terminator IP Logged

FinnHammer

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 240
Denmark
Gender: male

Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #340 - 03/03/25 at 11:29:02

Thanks, Mike, Rutty
The tiremount methods in the videos look good, I really liked the strips method, but alas, I caved in and took tyre and wheel to the dealer for a proper job including balancing, sparing myself from the rigours of finding out how to source the right inner tube for a tyre which is now totally non standard.
Engine work will probably be for next winter, this summer reserved for riding and sorting out the various cafe coonversions, starting with the front wheel and lowering the fork by 50mm, then rear whwel conveeted to 18" with 4.1" TT100 tire and 2" longer schocks. And clipons, not to forget.
A challenge will be to get the tank I want. Ideally, this should be an alluminum tank, polished. I got one out of India, but the shape, which is hard to judge by photos, leaves a lot to be desired. It looks like I will have to cut it right through lengthwise, remove some, and weld it back together to mahe it narrow enough out front. We will see about that.
Th black rims, well. I got them from the guy who specialises in Yamaha SX650. He has been mentioned here on the list, and is able to deliver the right spokes for the rear wheel.
I was going for polished rims, but he only had the black ones, so I chose to go for a dark design.
Black Lightning, anyone. Originally desifnated for the mighty Vincents. But I think I have earned the right to use the "Lightning" myself, referring to my latest installation in the Danish Energy Museum.

Picture when I get to a computer to resize the pic.

Back to top

IMG20250303110729.jpg

An expert is a person who has made all possible mistakes within a narrow field - Niels Bohr

IP Logged

Dave

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 18313
Camp Springs, Kentucky
Gender: male

Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #341 - 03/03/25 at 14:32:06

FinnHammer wrote on 03/02/25 at 06:41:44:

What do you guys do, to avoid ruining your precious allu rims, take it to the tyre shop and let them mount the tires? Probably the best way to also have it balanced in the same run.

I watched a video on YouTube where I guy used plastic trash bags to easily slide an antique car tire on a rim. I tried it and it did not work at all on a stiff motorcycle tire......maybe I wasn't patient enough as it did take a while for this guy to get the 1st bead over (the second came quickly thereafter).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIaWMUB3FPk

I still use these rim protectors (4 are needed) and some good, flat tire irons when I have to....however I now own a tire machine as well. When you get the tire irons you need to "deburr" them and get all the scratchy edges smoothed out. With care this system works great - however some of the modern tires can be really stiff and put up a big fight.

https://www.amazon.com/MOTION-Shield-Tire-Wheel-Tool/dp/B01JR46AD0/ref=asc_df...

https://www.amazon.com/Motion-Tire-Irons-Spoons-08-0003/dp/B092RB58XS/ref=sr_...

When I started riding a lot more and discovered I was changing 4 or more sets of tires a year, and that as the years go on I will be getting weaker and want to continue changing my own tires.....I bought a NoMar tire changer.

https://www.nomartirechanger.com/tc-ch100hd

The NoMar is not as easy as they make it look when they use the flexy sport bike tires - but it is easier than using tire irons. I have found I need to put clamps on the Sport Touring tires to get the beads to come together - the top bead pushes up so hard it is difficult to get it to drop into the drop center when installing the second side of the tire. There definitely is a learning curve with this machine - each one I do gets a little bit better. With a clean rim and tools and lube - nothing has scratched even though the tool rubs across the rim edge.

I have a big problem taking stuff to other people - my schedule doesn't always match their schedule, there is always an hour or more of travel involved (and some waiting), and I hate paying folks to do stuff I likely will do more carefully!

Back to top

Someday I will be old......But not today!

IP Logged

FinnHammer

Full Member

Offline

Posts: 240
Denmark
Gender: male

Re: Finn Hammer's Savage
Reply #342 - 03/04/25 at 07:33:41

Thanks for all the help with fitting tires.
I just weighed the old one against the new one. 7.8Kg vs 10.4Kg Kg Saved up front: 2.6Kg, a good thing.

I think I have uncovered an unused potential in the Savage head, for an almost racing engine inlet.
Unlike on the exhaust side, where there is a pitiful lack of material to remove to improve flow, the inlet seems to have generous wall thickness, so that the inlet tract could well be slanted downwards like this by cutting a lot off the top of the inlet :

Back to top

IMG_20250304_150926_NR.jpg

An expert is a person who has made all possible mistakes within a narrow field - Niels Bohr

IP Logged

FinnHammer Full Member Offline Posts: 240 Denmark Gender:	Re: Finn Hammer's Savage Reply #343 - 03/04/25 at 07:33:47 Instead of looking at the inlet valves like this:
Back to top	IMG_20250304_152231_NR.jpg An expert is a person who has made all possible mistakes within a narrow field - Niels Bohr IP Logged

FinnHammer Full Member Offline Posts: 240 Denmark Gender:	Re: Finn Hammer's Savage Reply #344 - 03/04/25 at 07:33:53 Imagine getting this view to them. This would also make a much better short turn:
Back to top	IMG_20250304_152214_NR.jpg An expert is a person who has made all possible mistakes within a narrow field - Niels Bohr IP Logged