MMRanch wrote on 02/04/25 at 20:56:00:


I agree - you should run as many things from the 12V source as you can - you lose some efficiency when you convert the 12V to 120V using an inverter.  If you intend to buy a fridge - find one that is wired for 12V.  Not only will you avoid the need to convert the voltage - 12V appliances built for camper use are going to be designed to be as efficient as possible.

My trailer does not have solar - but it does have a 12V battery mounted outside the trailer on the tongue.  It is outside as a charging lead acid batter puts off hydrogen gas (and I didn't want to take up any indoor space).  I initially went with lead acid as Lithium were just horribly expensive when I built the trailer....and I already had a couple of batteries in the RV I could borrow.  Lithium prices keep coming down and I will buy one for this camper someday.

My camper is wired for 12V LED interior lights, it has a 12V cigarette lighter socket with a battery voltage display so I can monitor the battery, the roof vent is 12V.

I do have a "shore power" plug that I use to recharge the battery - I have to either plug into an outlet at the campground or use a generator to charge.  I do have 2 outlets for 120V inside the camper, and when I am plugged in to a 120V source I can run an electric heater inside the camper.  Since most of my trips are only a few days long and I am only running a vent fan, charging my phone and powering a few lights - the battery has enough capacity without charging.

For recharging my battery I have a NOCO battery tender that was built for charging/maintaining deep cycle batteries.  It has the ability to work with conventional lead acid batteries, AGM or Lithium batteries.  Your solar system will need something similar to monitor the power in the batteries.

Second Cold Weather Test - FAIL!

Last night I tried sleeping on an air mattress in cold weather for the second time, and I was cold again.

I stripped the covers off the air mattress and put a fitted sheet and a wool blanket on the mattress so they were underneath me.  Then I put the top sheet/wool blanket/synthetic blanket on top.  I put the 500 watt heater on the middle shelf and had the thermostat set at 68.  I pushed the trailer out of the heated garage and into the driveway around 7PM - the outdoor temperature was 36 degrees.

This time instead of having my head up at the front end of the trailer where the heater was - I put my head down at the back end so the fan noise from the heater wasn't right near my head.  I went to bed at 10PM and the air temperature at the middle shelf was 64, the thermometer on the floor at the back ramp door said it was 54 degrees.

At midnight I woke up and I was cold - the outdoor temperature had dropped to 31.  The front shelf thermometer read 61....it was apparent the little 500W heater was not keeping up.  When I put my hand up near the ceiling I could feel it was much warmer than it was down by the floor.....which still had a reading of 54 degrees.

I removed the 500W heater and put the 1,300W heater in it's place, I also put in ear plugs as this heater makes more fan noise.  My hands, feet, arms and legs did not feel cold - my core was definitely cold and I feel tingly between my shoulder blades when this happens...it doesn't feel good. I was not shivering - but I was uncomfortable.  I was waiting for the heater to warm me up - but I never felt the warmth reach me under the covers.  If I extended my arm up into the air I could feel warmer air on my hand, and I hoped it would get to me soon!

I woke up at 3AM and I was very cold.  The thermometer on the middle shelf at the front of the trailer had gone back up to 64 - as far as I can tell the temperature never got to the 68 that was set on the thermostat.  The thermometer sitting on the floor back by the ramp was still 54 - the actual surface temperature could have been less.   When I got out of the bed I could feel the temperature up near the ceiling was very warm - it was likely in the middle 70's.

So what is happening to make this so unworkable?

1)  I believe the air mattress is blocking too much heat from getting to the cold floor.  The air mattress is 39"x74" - the trailer floor is 55"x120" plus the Vnose - so the mattress is covering almost half the floor area and preventing heat from reaching the surface.

2)  The wood trailer floor is transferring heat to the aluminum floor structure - and transmitting it to the aluminum walls and sheeting, trailer axle and tongue.  Even though there is insulation between the aluminum structural parts - the wood wall and floor covering are taking heat away.  The insulated walls and ceiling don't feel very cold to the touch - the floor and non-insulated rear ramp are very cold to the touch.

3)  The little space heaters don't seem to be mixing the air up much, and the heat goes upward in the trailer and does not do much heating down at the floor level.

4)  Perhaps I just don't have enough blankets for the cold.  My sleeping bag is warmer - but it is hard to get in/out of and a bit restrictive.  It is also much harder to roll up and get back into the stuff sack than it is to fold blankets.


So it appears:

A 1,300W heater is just barely enough for 31 degree outdoor temps.  It might work if the air would circulate better and the heat would get down to the floor.  It can keep the indoor temperature up to a nice level - it just wasn't getting enough down to the floor where I was sleeping.

An air mattress on a cold floor of a trailer is not good for staying warm.  It is pretty comfortable for sleeping - it just doesn't seem to be able to help me stay warm.  When I have used the conventional twin mattress in my trailer on cold nights - I have never had a problem keeping warm.  I guess all the fabric and padding is a good insulator and helps to prevent the cold floor temperature from coming up to the top of the mattress.  (I was hoping the air mattress would work, as hauling the conventional mattress against the inside wall of the trailer takes up room that I need for sleeping - if I have to sleep beside the motorcycle while traveling).

So my next test will be with a cot and see if that is any better.  I also can see if turning the Maxxair ceiling fan on low will help to bring some warm air down from the ceiling.  The advertising for the fan says that it can function as a ceiling fan for moving air around when the vent is kept closed.

Perhaps having carpeting on the floor would help a bit? I really don't want a carpeted floor in my trailer.  The floor with Monster Liner is so much easier to keep clean.  My leaf blower easily blows out debris and any mud can just be wiped up with a wet rag.

I am doing these trials in the driveway so that I know what to expect when I am away from home - if it fails hear I can run inside and crawl into my heated house and normal bed......exactly as I did last night at 3AM!  My wife is being tolerant of my experiments - but likely still believes I am a bit crazy!
 

And - Perhaps I am overthinking this.  I will likely not need to sleep in this camper when it is near freezing.  Most of the times that I have used the trailer to go riding, the night temperatures never get much below the 60's......a few times in Suches they have dropped down to the high 50's overnight.  I was able to stay warm in my smaller trailer without any heat - I had a foam mattress that seemed to do a good job shielding me from the cold floor.


     

Hay Dave ,  The China Diesel Heater from E-Bay works good in the Tractor Shed even with the Board and Gap walls .   It also has a 1-10 temp control.   Its real easy on fuel too , one gallon last several days of being in the shop , and is LOW watt draw 12 volt current.   The entire unit could be outside and use a insulated 4" pipe to move the hot air to where you want it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266342417492?_skw=diesel+heater&itmmeta=01JKKQX4AM2Q...


I'm using a  10 foot piece of 3/4" pipe as an exaust pipe

Aren't those diesel heaters kinda noisy?  Makes me think of those people at campgrounds that run their loud generators all night.  I don't want to be "that guy".

Most places have a curfew, but it's rarely enforced very well.

ThumperPaul wrote on 02/08/25 at 16:15:03:


That is one potential problem of sleeping in your trailer at the Two Wheels of Suches.  In the parking area where cars/trucks/trailers/campers are parked (they only allow motorcycles to cross the bridge over to the camping/cabin area on the other side of the creek).  You can find a nice spot and set up your minimal trailer - then a big rig pulls in next door and runs the generator all night.  Most of the time it is pretty peaceful there - but you are taking your chances.  The one time it did happen to me thankfully they were using a Honda Inverter/Generator that wasn't horribly loud and I was able to sleep through it.  (Poor Stewmills was in a tent and didn't sleep through it as well).

The newer model of the diesel heater is supposed to have solved the ticking fuel pump issue - just fan sounds now.  It also has a remote thermostat and heater control so you can be inside the camper and adjust the heater without going outside.

https://www.amazon.com/HCALORY-Support-Altitude-Portable-Bluetooth/dp/B0CBBMN...

Not only would this work in the camper - it would also work as an emergency heat source for a part of your house if you had a power outage.

MMRanch wrote on 02/09/25 at 20:48:40:


I have seen 2 methods for using it in the house or garage.

1)  They have a heat shielded hole to run the hot exhaust - same as you do for a wood burning stove but smaller.

2)  The other method is they leave the diesel heater outside and just run the air hose into a window.

I would use method 2.....that would keep the heater and diesel tank outside.

When tent camping, our solution for loud generators, is to pay a little more for sites with water and electric (avoid the “tent only” or “primitive” sites).  This gets some distance between us and people running generators.  This isn’t always possible and sometimes prevents us from having the camp site we really want.  Not that we’re terribly anti-social, but we like our space when camping.  It takes most of the pleasure out of camping when you’re stacked in the RV area 25’-30’ apart like sardines.  It only gets worse when the group next to you likes to stay up until 2am getting drunk, stoned, playing loud music and partying like it’s 1999.

Between loud generators and loud people, I’m not sure which is worse.  Recent camping trips have avoided being stuck next to bad neighbors.