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GIMME, GIMME, GIMME, (Read 146 times)
Eegore
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Re: GIMME, GIMME, GIMME,
Reply #15 - Today at 06:05:42
 
OK, observed reality, OUT.
Now, how do we make decisions?
How are we to evaluate the events of the world?
Without Observing, evaluating, comparing, we're lost.


 I said Observed Reality is a poor qualifier for the accuracy of information.  I never said it has no value.  

 The problem is saying information must be true because it aligns with one's Observed Reality.  Not because there is objective truth but because it just aligns with one's subjective Observations in their life.  What happens when someone simply chooses to not Observe something?

 An example is for years you have been accurately informed that the FDA never has, and can not, restrict off-label use of Ivermectin.  You still post information saying the FDA restricted Ivermectin.  This is because you refuse to Observe that is a lie, combined with Observations about government over-reach and duplicity.  You can have both a lying government and an FDA that never restricted Ivermectin - but your Observed Reality appears to prohibit that.  


 Another example is humans that Observe man-made climate change.  They simply refuse to Observe natural climate models and only Observe man-made change models.   Now every news story on a flood is "proof" of man-made climate change - after all it aligns perfectly with Observed Reality.  


 In chemistry, in all science, the First Rule is
Observation.


 That includes Observing what an article says and not just blindly posting it and arguing with human's that read it for you.  Again the defense being Observed Reality as a qualifier, so no need to actually read the article, then telling people that did read the information that they must be wrong makes sense.  Their assessment of the information you never even looked at doesn't align with Observed Reality.

 Observed Reality is a poor qualifier for information.  Information that directly conflicts with your Observations can be true.
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Re: GIMME, GIMME, GIMME,
Reply #16 - Today at 06:33:49
 
Eegore wrote on Today at 05:46:06:
"...  Information that matches a member's Observed Reality is true,
and information that does not is false."


So person saw someone,
holding a cell phone, walking down the street, run into a light post, and fall down.

That happened, it was REALITY !

Why was that person so involved in the phone is the question.
Unless that person said, why, it is a Opinion.

(Just like statics. They are like a prostitute, once you lay them down, you can do anything you want to do)

Information that matches or does not match, is irrelevant to, the first hand OBSERVED REALITY.

If someone thinks, that, 'observed reality', is false. based on what someone else says,
       again,
   Diddly Squat !





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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Eegore
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Re: GIMME, GIMME, GIMME,
Reply #17 - Today at 07:15:42
 
So person saw someone,
holding a cell phone, walking down the street, run into a light post, and fall down.

That happened, it was REALITY !


 Agreed.  The only person claiming "reality isn't really real" is you.  Single event Observations have never been disagreed upon, you however will not Observe this.


Information that matches or does not match, is irrelevant to, the first hand OBSERVED REALITY.

 Listening to decades of car crash witnesses and comparing it to dashcam footage makes me doubt firsthand experience is as accurate as many think.   So when someone Observes a human on a cellphone walk into a pole and fall down, then another says they Observed that same human try to sidestep something on the ground, twist an ankle hit the pole then fall - who's Observed Reality is real?

 The human that Observed a person on a cellphone walk into a pole will think any article online about cellphones being distracting to be accurate based off their Observed Reality - after all they Observed a cellphone distracted human walk right into a pole.

 The human that Observed a person on a cellphone dodge an obstacle, the slip into a pole will think any article online about cellphones being distracting to be inaccurate based off their Observed Reality - after all they Observed a cellphone distracted dodge a dog-turd and slip into a pole.


 Observed Reality is a poor qualifier because tow humans Observed a single event two different ways.  



If someone thinks, that, 'observed reality', is false. based on what someone else says,
      again,
  Diddly Squat


 Nobody claimed any of this.  I said Observed Reality is a poor qualifier for deciding if data or reference is true.  You will not Observe this.  So you are sticking to the Observing single events argument, which makes sense because in your Reality I am saying reality isn't really real and am discounting lived experience.  

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Re: GIMME, GIMME, GIMME,
Reply #18 - Today at 08:28:29
 
Isn't it also about assumptions? You saw someone walk into the lamppost and lose the phone. But was it really a phone? Several people who see the same thing will all have a different story about what happened.
In addition, memory is something unreliable. So the chance that you will tell exactly what happened is very small. And then also that we are so used to lying, that we no longer realize that we are doing it.

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Do what you know is right. (you can always use fear as a counselor later)
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Re: GIMME, GIMME, GIMME,
Reply #19 - Today at 09:52:07
 
Eegore wrote on Today at 07:15:42:
"...  only person claiming "reality isn't really real" is you ..."
"...  Observed Reality is a poor qualifier ..."  



You IMPLIED 'reality isn't really real'  many times !

You believe a Reality OBSERVED, is a poor qualifier.

Observed Reality is always real.
The reason, that thing happened, is a Opinion, from numerous sources.

So just keep putting, someones opinion, above what someone sees.

Do not confuse a Car accident, (or like), where one Reality Observer, was in the car, one was in front, one in the back, one on each side, to be all the same thing, then dismiss because is is not

 (Excluding Magician's)



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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Eegore
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Re: GIMME, GIMME, GIMME,
Reply #20 - Today at 10:51:45
 
You IMPLIED 'reality isn't really real'  many times !

 This is your argument for anything you want to claim someone said, but never actually said.  You inferred it, and nobody is fooled by this.  



Observed Reality is always real.
The reason, that thing happened, is a Opinion, from numerous sources.

So just keep putting, someones opinion, above what someone sees.


 Again, that is not what I am saying.  I am saying Observed reality is a poor qualifier for data or reference.  I'm not saying my opinion that a river didn't rise is superior to a human witnessing a river rise.



 Do not confuse a Car accident, (or like), where one Reality Observer, was in the car, one was in front, one in the back, one on each side, to be all the same thing, then dismiss because is is not

(Excluding Magician's)


 In a car accident 4 humans can have 4 different Observations.  If two say its Car A's fault and two say its Car B's fault, should law enforcement and the courts use their Observed Reality to decide?  They can only Observe data or reference - so their Observed Realities should not apply to this car wreck.

 When a human who was not even there has an Observed reality where Younger drivers cause more wrecks, they will decide Car B is at fault - based off Observed Reality.

 When a human who was not even there has an Observed reality where Older drivers cause more wrecks, they will decide Car B is at fault - based off Observed Reality.



 An example is how JoG still Observes the FDA restricted off-label use of Ivermectin.  That matches his Observed Reality, where he has Observed government interference , cover ups and corruption - but it is not actual reality.  All he has to do to maintain this is refuse to Observe any actual real FDA guidelines or actions and only Observe social media posts.  His Observed Reality would then not be actual reality.  JoG is using Observed Reality even though he never actually witnessed with his own eyes any of this.
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Re: GIMME, GIMME, GIMME,
Reply #21 - Today at 11:03:29
 
Isn't it also about assumptions? You saw someone walk into the lamppost and lose the phone. But was it really a phone? Several people who see the same thing will all have a different story about what happened.
In addition, memory is something unreliable. So the chance that you will tell exactly what happened is very small. And then also that we are so used to lying, that we no longer realize that we are doing it.


 This is true.  However actual visual Observation of an event has never been what I am talking about.  MnSpring just keeps trying to make a futile diversionary argument using the tactic.  

 What this is about is deciding the evidentiary value of data or reference based off one's personal Observations.  Meaning if I choose to only Observe man-made climate change data, and refuse to Observe any naturally occurring climate change data - my Observed Reality will be all weather events are caused by man.  So data or reference that aligns with my Observed reality is true, and others are false.  This is why Social Media is accepted as reliable news, even though anyone can just make it up at any time.

 This also creates a self-fulfilling 100% accurate rate of assessment because any data (not personally witnessed events) that contradicts my personal Observations is simply not Observed.  Its also asinine to think what little I see is happening the same way across the entire planet.  

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Re: GIMME, GIMME, GIMME,
Reply #22 - Today at 12:02:35
 
Ok thanks for the explanation.

When you start discussing, you touch someone's identity and nobody likes that.

so it is often not so much that someone defends his truth, it is more that someone defends his identity.
If you then come up with all kinds of theories about observed reality as science uses it, then that is usually not very effective and you put yourself on a pedestal that in turn is also identity.
Isn't it better to come up with factual arguments?
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Do what you know is right. (you can always use fear as a counselor later)
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Re: GIMME, GIMME, GIMME,
Reply #23 - Today at 12:32:48
 
Eegore wrote on Today at 11:03:29:
"... However actual visual Observation of an event has never been what I am talking about.  ..."  


CONGRATULATIONS !

You just got the last word in !
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: GIMME, GIMME, GIMME,
Reply #24 - Today at 14:08:17
 
When you remember something, you do not remember the event. You remember your last memory of the event. So, memory, unsupported by new learning, is susceptible to replicative fading, just like a photo that you copy and keep copying the copies--- eventually it becomes useless.

That's why journalism is so important, though, in the US, where nobody READS, it's become a joke.
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Re: GIMME, GIMME, GIMME,
Reply #25 - Today at 14:36:12
 
When you remember something, you do not remember the event. You remember your last memory of the event. So, memory, unsupported by new learning, is susceptible to replicative fading, just like a photo that you copy and keep copying the copies--- eventually it becomes useless.

That's why journalism is so important, though, in the US, where nobody READS, it's become a joke.



 Agreed.  How Observed Reality is being applied here is not really about the accurate memory of a specific event.  It is about justifying that data, (which in most cases is never looked at) can be decided right or wrong based off Observed Reality.

 If I am told the results of data, that I never looked at for myself, has information that aligns with my Observed Reality, it's true.  If not, then it's false.  


 JoG's vaccine information is a good example.  He has Observed vaccine change a family member's personality.  So now information saying vaccines cause personality change is true because it aligns with his Observed Reality.  So when a high school kid creates a FB post making up nonsense out of thin air, it will be argued as factual, not because JoG ever looked at the information, but because it aligns with his Observed Reality.  

 MnSpring will try to claim I am implying this has to do with one human witnessing one thing with their own eyes.  
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Re: GIMME, GIMME, GIMME,
Reply #26 - Today at 14:40:45
 

so it is often not so much that someone defends his truth, it is more that someone defends his identity.
If you then come up with all kinds of theories about observed reality as science uses it, then that is usually not very effective and you put yourself on a pedestal that in turn is also identity.
Isn't it better to come up with factual arguments?


 It appears to be rather factual to me that Observed Reality has been argued as a valid source of deciding if a document, people didn't even read, is accurate or not.
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