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I need electronic help!!!!!  What is this? (Read 181 times)
Axman88
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Re: I need electronic help!!!!!  What is this?
Reply #30 - Yesterday at 08:47:14
 
When my buddy, who had a hobby as a reptile breeder, decided he needed generator power backup in a rented house, he chose to bring emergency power into the main breaker panel using the popular but unsanctioned method of a cheater cord into the dryer outlet.

The reptiles needed warmth to stay alive, and his collection was worth tens of thousands.  Because he had several rooms full of cords feeding low wattage tank heaters, and also wanted to supply the usual refridgerator and furnace loads, the extension cord method was a real nightmare, would require a big investment in cords and splitters, and hours to setup and break down.

Dryer Outlets are attractive for this purpose because they are high rated, fed via large gauge wire and generally located close to the service panel.   My friend's house was equipped with an older 3 prong, 30A outlet.  I built him a cheater cord that came out of the generator and plugged into the dryer outlet, male connections on both ends.  This is unsafe if plugged into a live circuit on one end, and left unplugged on the other end, which is just one reason why the practice is unapproved, but he wasn't interested in spending a lot of money upgrading the landlord's property, with a proper interlock, so took the expedient path.

It's essential to shut off the Mains, isolating the breaker box from the grid.  Also essential to shut off any 240 Volt loads, since they would be fed single phase during the emergency event.  Some generators can supply split phase 240V, but not the one he was using.  It is possible to make a cheater cord that will supply the same single phase to both legs of the split phase circuit breaker box, and this is a viable strategy if one is disciplined about isolation.

The last essential step is to identify which circuits are essential, such that the generator, dryer outlet, and inlet cord won't be overwhelmed.  We used colored tape to ID circuits which must be OFF in red, and those to turn ON in blue.  Anything left unmarked was safe to turn on, but not essential.

It's a practice that is a half measure, and not by any means idiot proof or without risk.  But, it does work, and requires no modification to a building's electrical system to implement.  The only evidence of shennanigans is that cheater cord, which can be quite short.
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MMRanch
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Re: I need electronic help!!!!!  What is this?
Reply #31 - Yesterday at 11:48:28
 
Yes Axeman. Smiley

Only essentials on the generator.  Wink

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Re: I need electronic help!!!!!  What is this?
Reply #32 - Yesterday at 12:43:12
 
Axmann88:

You covered the "cheater" method well, and I did something very similar when we had a power outage that lasted almost a week.  For the first few days we just ran extension cords to the things we needed - then when I found out the outage was going to be extended I went ahead a wired a special cord that went into the breaker box and supplied a full 220V supply from the 7,500 watt gas generator we had at that time.  It was essential that the "MAIN" breakers remained "OFF", and I was using a 30 amp plug on the generator that was wired into the 220V circuit breaker for the dryer.  Our house was running just like normal and all of our lights and TV and ceiling fans worked, and we could have run our 220V appliances - but we did not as it was summer and we didn't need a dryer, AC or to run the oven.  NOTE: It is essential that the person running the generator understands not to turn the "MAIN" breakers on while the generator is running....or when the generator is connected to the house circuit - and that only "ONE" person operates the setup so he knows exactly what is on or off and knows to unhook the generator before turning the "MAIN" back on.  I feel that any person doing this needs a good understanding of how electricity works and travels though a wiring system.  When you make a cheater cable to allow this method to be used - those live terminals poking out of the plug need to treated with respect!!!!

MMRanch:

One easy thing you could do to avoid the emergency cords, is to install some new wiring in your house that is dedicated to the generator.  You could have an outdoor plug....or just a wire with the proper 30 amp plug and and some 10 gauge wire to a small breaker box.  You could install a couple of 20 amp  breakers and run some 12 gauge wire (or 15 amp breakers with 14 gauge wire) to the places where you plug in your fridge, freezer, TV and a few lights that you want to run when the grid is offline.  

This would be pretty inexpensive to do....and horribly convenient for you.  When the power goes off you move your generator to the place you have the outdoor connection and plug it in, then start the generator.  Then go inside and unplug the fridge from the original outlet and plug it into the new generator outlet.....repeat as necessary for the outlets you have installed.  (NOTE:  Be careful with any electronic equipment - have it unplugged when you start or stop the generator).

I could help you do this work next summer if you want.....I could ride a motorcycle down and we could combine the work and play for a few days.
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Re: I need electronic help!!!!!  What is this?
Reply #33 - Today at 15:40:11
 
 I could help you do this work next summer if you want.....I could ride a motorcycle down and we could combine the work and play for a few days.  

Dave , that's a generous offer  Smiley  !

Work and Play is always better when there is more Play and less Work ... So ... Let me ask for opinions on what might be a really easy option.  

My generator is 120 only.  It does have a 30 amp travel trailer 120 volt 3 prong plug.   In my shop I have a 220 volt heater plug and a 50 amp welder plug.
So
I had the idea to turn pull the main at the house to effetely turn my house into an OFF-GRID , do anything I want cabin.  
Next fix a special purpose cord to feed both hot legs of the house 220 volt  20 amp heater  3 prong plug - from the single hot leg from the generator.   If I used the 50 amp welder 4 prong plug then I could have a ground also.

It seems to me that as long as all the 220 volt items except the 20 amp 220 Volt heater plug were disabled ... then both bars at the house would share the generator's 120 volts  just fine up to the 20 amp limit of the 220 volts heater plug's breaker .  ?  

So , What  am I not seeing ?   Huh

...................

"The other thing is , We haven't had a power outage of longer than one hour in 30 years .   Smiley   We are on the same leg from the power company as the Nursing home is ... so we're the first line to get fixed if anything go wrong.  Wink

I'll start making a list of local ride ideas , we got two extra rooms now and a camping style "dry cabin" if anybody else thinks a week in southern  middle TN is a
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Re: I need electronic help!!!!!  What is this?
Reply #34 - Today at 16:01:16
 
MM:

That sounds like a workable plan.  The safety and "workability" of it all depends on you doing things properly.....most of all tripping or removing the mains before you do anything else.

It is also necessary that you watch the load you place on the generator.  Your 3,500 watt peak/3,000 watt continuous has a display that shows the wattage being used - that will help you keep things below the 3,000 watt continuous rating.

It sounds like the only thing you need is a 30 watt RV generator cord, and you can either cut off the factory female end and install your special end that will plug into your AC or heater outlet.  (Or you could leave the RV cord "as-is" and make a short adapter with 10 gauge wire and the proper male ends).

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Axman88
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Re: I need electronic help!!!!!  What is this?
Reply #35 - Today at 21:00:31
 
MMRanch wrote on Today at 15:40:11:
It seems to me that as long as all the 220 volt items except the 20 amp 220 Volt heater plug were disabled ... then both bars at the house would share the generator's 120 volts  just fine up to the 20 amp limit of the 220 volts heater plug's breaker .  ?  

So , What  am I not seeing ?


You'd be better off feeding your panel via the heavier gauge wires servicing the 50A welder outlet, less of that precious generator power lost in IR drop.

As far as potential pitfalls....
NEC allows, or at least used to allow, sharing the neutral when opposite phases are being run from the same source, under certain conditions.

This is OK because any power supplied by opposite phases, via a shared neutral, subtract from the power carried by the neutral, opposite phases cancel out.  However, this would no longer be the case if both phases were being fed from the same, single source, and any shared neutral wire could be overloaded.

I think modern installations would require handle tied, double pole breakers, and thus shouldn't be an issue, but I have seen that rule bent in older buildings.  Neutrals are easy to get sloppy on, since pretty much any white wire works and makes the light come on.  Handy man types will generally tie to whatever is available, and not think twice.  Three or four guys like this, building on each other's work, and things can get pretty messed up.    I've seen multi-unit wiring where power was supplied from one panel, on one meter, and returning to another panel, on another meter.  Newer buildings and wire styles will be less inclined to that sort of abuse.  NM isn't allowed here for residential use, except in outbuildings.

A careful electrician will make sure that returning amperages in neutrals match outgoing feeders.    A clamp ammeter is a good tool for diagnosis and verification.
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