Tcreeley -

I mostly agree, but a guy who got divorced twice and kept his sex life in his own home is quite different from a POTUS getting a b... job in the Oval Office, sitting behind the most powerful desk in the world, and on the phone to a Congressman at the same time.

During Reagan's presidency, he would not even enter the Oval Office, even at night or on a weekend, unless he was attired in suit and tie, out of his deep respect for the place itself, the power it represents, and the line of great men who had gone before him.

I guess that kind of respect has vanished, as Clinton got his head job there, and Hopey Changey has been photographed sitting in the oval office in casual clothes.

Jerry, don't even bring up that cheap fraud Ronny ray-gun. That asswipe fired the Professional Air traffic controllers to bust their union. Two of my family members were fired in that vindictive and stupid action. Millions of air travelers were put in harms way as overworked supervisors and rookie controllers hired overnight were put in charge of airports and enroute centers across the nation.

Ronald Reagan represents all of the worst elements of the American political experience of the last 50 years. All of them. He was, and always will be, nothing but a fool.

Intellectually, Reagan gave chimpy a run for his money. He was vacuous. He was shallow. He was incurious. He was a puppet and a door stop for a group of sick ideologues who really ran the country. He was a broken down cowboy actor and foolish tool.

Ideologically, he was a hater and an imperialist and far-right loony-tune. He hated the poor. He hated gays. He hated leftists. He hated unions. He hated America itself.

He hated and he hated and he hated. Just ask his own kids. He hated them and himself and his ex-wife. Ronald Reagan was a twisted unrepentant closed-minded dope.

In the end, the only way he could live with himself was to forget everything.

...so pardon me if I don't get all full of love and pride because he wore a suit in his own house.

[quote author=202F2329222F24282F382D2F384A0 link=1284942340/90#104 date=1285882013]Lifter -

That remark about state court judge is insulting.  Read my post on the Tall Table - in 35 years of constant trial work and appearances before judges in several states, I've NEVER encountered one on the take.

Jerry if a judge was crooked or on the take ,you would be the last person to know agout it,he does not broadcast his crimes.
Personally I would guess 30% are crooked.
Maybe not literaly taking money,but favors count as well. Look at all the celebs of late getting off with a slap on the wrist,had it been me ,I would rot in jail until he was in the mood to hear my case.

+1

Liftre -

I know it's you who hate Reagan.  Too bad.

As for the air traffic controller situation, the strike was ILLEGAL under the Federal laws of 1981.  What should he have done, turned his head and let an illegal strike continue?  Not in my mind.

I too had a friend personally affected.  My best buddy from college was a controller who got canned - I told him not to go out, but he got brainwashed by the union and violated Federal law.  Should the controllers have been able to choose which Federal laws to obey or violate with impunity?

As for hating unions - Reagan was the only president who himself had been the president of an AFL-CIO union; the Screen Actors Guild.  Before you think that SAG is only a fraternal organization of millionaire stars, the exact opposite is true.  SAG mainly represents the bottom rung of actors - those whose names appear at the end of screen credits for every movie - the little guys who need a union.  The stars don't need a union to protect their interests - the stars have a huge bargaining power themselves.  It's SAG who protects the stunt men from crazy crap that is outright dangerous.  SAG protects the working conditions and wages paid to those people who struggle daily to make a meager living doing bit parts in B or C grade movies and on TV.

Yeah, Reagan wasn't particularly sympathetic to gay causes, nor am I.  I don't hate anyone, but I do have my opinions of right and wrong, and I just don't see gay life as an acceptable "alternative life style".  Again, I don't hate them, but I sure don't work to advance any of their causes, either, with the sole exception of being wholeheartedly in favor of AIDS research and treatment.

And of course, I'd bet that you see no good in Reagan's push to dismember the Soviet empire and in the process, end the Cold War.  I do see good in that.  Yeah, it cost us a lot of money, buy far less than a world wide conflagration from a nuclear war would have cost.

Like most things political, we'll never agree on most of these points.

Lifter -

You see, my friend, the danger of quotes taken out of context:

For one, the supposed remark about Vietnam Vets' not being eligible for GI benefits was his ruing that thought; not supporting it.  A simple sentence taken out of the context of the whole is meaningless, as are most of the quotes you offer.  I admit it's a popular political tactic used by both sides, but it's unfair, intellectually dishonest, and wrong nonetheless.

Anything being offered by Clark Clifford borders on stupidity.

As for the 1964 TV speech, it was an intentional joke - again, a remark taken out of the context of the whole.

As for PATCO, he gave them either a 48 or 72 hour long window ( I can't recall which ) in which to return to work and receive amnesty.  As for negotiating during an illegal strike - sorry, no way.  He did order them back to work and they refused, carrying on the illegal strike.  He had no choice but to can them.  You don't negotiate with people who are breaking the law intentionally.  And aviation safety wasn't compromised one bit - I know - I flew almost everyday thru those times (not in the back seats, but in the front left seat).  The system simply contracted some, fewer clearances were immediately issued, and a bit of convenience was compromised - that's all.  The most I was ever delayed in those few months was about 30 minutes.  Safety was never compromised.  Few "rookies" were put into controlling positions - most vacancies were filled by fully qualified military controllers temporarily assigned to civilian ATC facilities.  The rookies were used in clearance delivery positions, the guy who talks on the radio and reads a pilot the clearance - they weren't used to actually control traffic.  Don't forget, nearly 30 years ago there was a lot less air traffic than there is now.

Now I do fault Reagan for two things:

1.  The repeal of the investment tax credit in 1986, first instituted by a Dem, JFK, which I think should immediately be restored to spur manufacturing today, and

2.  Airline deregulation which spurred the ruination of a fine industry and made it into the "Greyhound buses of the sky" which airline travel is today.  Those of us fortunate enough to remember when an airline trip was a very nice experience are lucky.  It probably won't ever be again.  One of my good buddies, a retired captain at United, said it best when he said that deregulation only accomplished two things:  It brought the Greyhound bus crowd to the airport, along with their expectations of service and classiness".

Once more, we don't agree, but what else is new?

And if you think U.S. policies had nothing to do with bankrupting the Soviet Union which in turn led to its downfall, you need to revisit your history.

You have to wonder whether the world is better off with the fall of the USSR...
There are now, in all probability, uncounted and unaccountable nukes and WMD's, loose in various fledgling countries, maintained and controlled by god only knows...

An accident,... or on purpose,... just waiting to happen...

LA -

Airline deregualtion certainly did not work to the benefit of the airlines.

Look at the fact that all of the major carriers except American have had to file for bankruptcy at least once in the last decade or so - Delta, United, Continental, all reorganized.  TWA, Eastern and Braniff are just plain gone.

Under the old regulation scheme, carriers were guaranteed a profit and in return, had to fly many unprofitable routes, primary to smaller cities.  What happened, in essence, is thattravelers between major cities subisduzed those going to places like, for instance, Youngstown, Ohio or Columbus, GA where the routes didn't have enough business to support them in their own right.  Today, Youngstown has only 3 flights per week, primarily to Florida in the winter months.  Otherwise, those folks drive about 70 miles to either Pittsburgh or Cleveland to get an airline flight.

What deregulation did do was lower fares, as airlines were freed up to drop the places like Youngstown and only fly profitable routes.  So if you live in a mjor city, you saw a benefit in lower fares.  If you live in a marginal city, you lost airline service.



So don't believe for a minute that airline deregulation benefitted the airlines - it killed several of them outright, and made bankrupts out of te others, all except American, and American is now losing money.