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raydawg

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Sex...,.,,????
04/30/17 at 12:24:09

Got a question.
We are told by the open minded that it's ok to change your sex, yes?
If you are a man, and desire to be a woman, for whatever reason, you are entitled and encouraged.
Ditto if you are a woman who feels more manly.
If you are straight, you are heralded if you become Gay, or Lesbian.
To accept this is the apex of being open minded and tolerance.
If a person struggles with the constraints of our heterosexual society norm, requiring therapy in order to "come out"...
That is a good thing.
Which prompts my question....
Why is this same tolerance and understanding NOT extended to a Gay, or Lesbian wishing to get therapy and connect with their "straight" feelings?

Are they not both the very same identity crisis/confusion?

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raydawg Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 11551 pacific northwest Gender:	Re: Sex...,.,,???? Reply #1 - 04/30/17 at 19:30:36 Not one reply? Am I wrong on this? What is the difference? Anybody.......????
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pg

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Re: Sex...,.,,????
Reply #2 - 04/30/17 at 19:54:14

Cultural Marxism is the Marxist dialectic and applied to identity and culture. Like all forms of Marxism, it is based upon categorizing people into abstract groups and then creating a narrative of historical oppression between them. The strategy of Marxists is always to cultivate a victimized group and then convince its members that solidarity is required against the oppressors. This creates resentment and hatred and is how Marxist ideologies fulfill their revolutionary objectives.

Best regards,

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raydawg

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Re: Sex...,.,,????
Reply #3 - 04/30/17 at 20:31:51

pg wrote on 04/30/17 at 19:54:14:

Cultural Marxism is the Marxist dialectic and applied to identity and culture. Like all forms of Marxism, it is based upon categorizing people into abstract groups and then creating a narrative of historical oppression between them. The strategy of Marxists is always to cultivate a victimized group and then convince its members that solidarity is required against the oppressors. This creates resentment and hatred and is how Marxist ideologies fulfill their revolutionary objectives.

Best regards,

Wow, that is heavy. Who wins in such a scenario?

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T And T Garage Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9839	Re: Sex...,.,,???? Reply #4 - 05/01/17 at 05:10:34 When did any of you choose to be straight?
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raydawg

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Re: Sex...,.,,????
Reply #5 - 05/01/17 at 05:44:40

T And T Garage wrote on 05/01/17 at 05:10:34:

When did any of you choose to be straight?

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.
If a gay person is struggling with their sexual identity, and for whatever reason they believe they would feel more intuned to a heterosexual relationship, why is not as accepted as straight to gay choice?

I read most homosexual folk have had sex with the opposite sex, but heterosexual folks rarely experience sex with a person of their own sex.
So I am thinking their must be questions they have re: their orientation....
That is what prompted my question, not judging anyone, not my job, only trying to learn

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T And T Garage

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Re: Sex...,.,,????
Reply #6 - 05/01/17 at 07:29:37

raydawg wrote on 05/01/17 at 05:44:40:

T And T Garage wrote on 05/01/17 at 05:10:34:

When did any of you choose to be straight?

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.
If a gay person is struggling with their sexual identity, and for whatever reason they believe they would feel more intuned to a heterosexual relationship, why is not as accepted as straight to gay choice?

I read most homosexual folk have had sex with the opposite sex, but heterosexual folks rarely experience sex with a person of their own sex.
So I am thinking their must be questions they have re: their orientation....
That is what prompted my question, not judging anyone, not my job, only trying to learn

The question is the problem - but it's not your fault... let me try to explain:

First off, it's more a societal push that homosexuals have had sex with the opposite sex. They want to try and conform, but can't. (if you hadn't noticed, there's a stigma attached to homosexuals in our society).

Most homosexuals don't struggle with their sexual identity. I have many gay friends - both men and women - and none of them want sex change operations. They like being the sex they are. Their sexuality is separate from what sex they are.

But, yes, there are those that identify differently than the sex they were born. Their identity is different than a "traditional" homosexual or heterosexual.

Think of it this way - does everyone in the cycling community turn wrenches? Does every motorcyclist even know how to check for spark? Further, does everyone who drives on highways yearn to do so on a motorcycle?

Everyone is different. Not everyone fits in a particular category. I don't know what draws me to ride a motorcycle, or to love sci-fi, or enjoy mechanics, or not find men attractive sexually.... It's just who I am.

The media and whatever the "moral-majority" is these days have tried to make this out to be more than it is (caitlin jenner). They seem so threatened by the LGBT community that they need to publicise every single little story. Pretty soon, many are thinking that every homosexual wants to be the opposite sex they were born, etc. it's just not true. Just like it's not true that everyone on a motorcycle is a thug or lowlife.

Get to know a homosexual... seriously, (they're cool people too), and a lot of the girls I know love to ride and are fantastic wrenches!

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raydawg

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Re: Sex...,.,,????
Reply #7 - 05/01/17 at 08:35:32

You are assuming a great deal.....
First, I know gay people, many.
My brother-in-law was gay.
He died of AIDS, as many of his friends I knew that lived in Long Beach, Ca, and San Francisco.
I had very deep discussions with him and his friends, on the subject.
I have shared here before, he once remarked he would not wish a homosexual lifestyle on his worse enemy, however, he said he wouldn't change who he is.......WHOA, do you get that?
I have challenged one of my best friends, who happens to be a pastor, who says he would deny a gay couple ghe opportunity to hear his sermon....
I bought my house from a lady who came out, and have referred her many times to buyers and sellers.
The island where I live has a thriving gay community and is well known.

I have no problem with it, and matter of fact would be more comfortable with a gay man leading the Boy Scouts on a camping trip than a straight dude taking the Girl Scouts...

Anyway, I'm not sure if you even want to understand my question, but thanks for engaging.

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pg Serious Thumper Offline Posts: 5274 In Transit	Re: Sex...,.,,???? Reply #8 - 05/01/17 at 08:38:47 T And T Garage wrote on 05/01/17 at 07:29:37: The question is the problem - but it's not your fault... let me try to explain: I really don't take much of an issue with much of what you said. However, why do they need go to go the rest room with little girls? That is absurd! Best regards,
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T And T Garage

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Re: Sex...,.,,????
Reply #9 - 05/01/17 at 09:31:12

raydawg wrote on 05/01/17 at 08:35:32:

You are assuming a great deal.....
First, I know gay people, many.
My brother-in-law was gay.
He died of AIDS, as many of his friends I knew that lived in Long Beach, Ca, and San Francisco.
I had very deep discussions with him and his friends, on the subject.

Then why the question? Since you have talked to them, you know that most homosexuals aren't "confused" about their gender or sexuality. They are mutually exclusive to one another.

I have shared here before, he once remarked he would not wish a homosexual lifestyle on his worse enemy, however, he said he wouldn't change who he is.......WHOA, do you get that?

Yes - that pretty much reinforces the notion that it's not a "choice"

I have challenged one of my best friends, who happens to be a pastor, who says he would deny a gay couple ghe opportunity to hear his sermon....
I bought my house from a lady who came out, and have referred her many times to buyers and sellers.
The island where I live has a thriving gay community and is well known.

I have no problem with it, and matter of fact would be more comfortable with a gay man leading the Boy Scouts on a camping trip than a straight dude taking the Girl Scouts...

Anyway, I'm not sure if you even want to understand my question, but thanks for engaging.

It boils down to one of the words you used - "choice", and the phrase you used - "If you are straight, you are heralded if you become Gay, or Lesbian.".

There is no choice in the matter. People are who they are. Did you have to choose who to be sexually attracted to? I didn't. My gay friends didn't. There is no such thing as a heterosexual just "becoming gay".

So the last part of your question I glossed over - my bad. But to give my 2 cents - of all the homosexuals I've known - I have never met one that struggled with his or her "heterosexual tendencies" - and I know none of them would ever think about any therapy. I do know some bi-sexual people (not directly) that have struggled to find a life partner. But again, they know who they are sexually.

Any therapy I've ever seen has been driven by the self proclaimed "decent" people of society - not by homosexuals themselves. Like I said - these are things driven by our society not accepting them.

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T And T Garage

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Re: Sex...,.,,????
Reply #10 - 05/01/17 at 09:33:37

pg wrote on 05/01/17 at 08:38:47:

T And T Garage wrote on 05/01/17 at 07:29:37:

The question is the problem - but it's not your fault... let me try to explain:

I really don't take much of an issue with much of what you said. However, why do they need go to go the rest room with little girls? That is absurd!

Best regards,

Seriously?? "why do they need go to go the rest room with little girls" . ??

Who's "they"? Transgender people? What's the big deal??

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Re: Sex...,.,,????
Reply #11 - 05/01/17 at 10:11:53

I had those discussions.
He said some are militant and angry.
Some Bi-sexual, and some just want to try different stuff.
Some very promiscuous, some very committed, uh, sounds like heteros Grin

He said the cause is NOT one size fits all, and certain things can contribute to a persons sexuality.
He cited how a girl with an non-existent, or dysfunctional, farther daughter relationship, might try to use sex to fill that void, and therefor not experience the more fulfilling and sustainable relationship a "normal" relationship can provide.

Again, I am not even challenging the factors that homosexuality, IS, the "norm" for a person that is Gay.
Nor am I dismissing the the effects society has/had, placed on these issues.
They are very real, and a contributing factor indeed.
Just like the little girl and her screwed up dad.

I am asking why is it frowned upon by those who promote openness ( I use the term loosely ) when someone, for "whatever" reason, seeks to go from Gay, to straight?
I can't tell you why they would, nor can you, even tho you said in all your associations you never met a Gay person who had such a problem....
Surely you do not pretend you speak for everyone, are you?

I googled the question, and I found this article in the New York Times.
Read it, please.
Seems there must be some folk, not just kids and their parents, or religious zealots, who have sought this kind of therapy....
Look at the staunch "against" it at all cost, some open-minded to sexual identity studies, therapy, etc, exhibit against it.
Why?
Its not a choice, right.....
Are we to deny a person in need of it so they can find their "true" sexual identity?
I know many mitigating circumstances have influences over many factors in our life, who we are, believe, become.
To say its its either black, or white, is an absolute, and I believe just plain wrong.

Read this, I read a lot of anger, and double standard.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/30/us/politics/mike-pence-and-conversion-ther...

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T And T Garage

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Re: Sex...,.,,????
Reply #12 - 05/01/17 at 10:37:21

raydawg wrote on 05/01/17 at 10:11:53:

I had those discussions.
He said some are militant and angry.
Some Bi-sexual, and some just want to try different stuff.
Some very promiscuous, some very committed, uh, sounds like heteros Grin

He said the cause is NOT one size fits all, and certain things can contribute to a persons sexuality.
He cited how a girl with an non-existent, or dysfunctional, farther daughter relationship, might try to use sex to fill that void, and therefor not experience the more fulfilling and sustainable relationship a "normal" relationship can provide.

Again, I am not even challenging the factors that homosexuality, IS, the "norm" for a person that is Gay.
Nor am I dismissing the the effects society has/had, placed on these issues.
They are very real, and a contributing factor indeed.
Just like the little girl and her screwed up dad.

I am asking why is it frowned upon by those who promote openness ( I use the term loosely ) when someone, for "whatever" reason, seeks to go from Gay, to straight?
I can't tell you why they would, nor can you, even tho you said in all your associations you never met a Gay person who had such a problem....
Surely you do not pretend you speak for everyone, are you?

I googled the question, and I found this article in the New York Times.
Read it, please.
Seems there must be some folk, not just kids and their parents, or religious zealots, who have sought this kind of therapy....
Look at the staunch "against" it at all cost, some open-minded to sexual identity studies, therapy, etc, exhibit against it.
Why?
Its not a choice, right.....
Are we to deny a person in need of it so they can find their "true" sexual identity?
I know many mitigating circumstances have influences over many factors in our life, who we are, believe, become.
To say its its either black, or white, is an absolute, and I believe just plain wrong.

Read this, I read a lot of anger, and double standard.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/30/us/politics/mike-pence-and-conversion-ther...

That's why I used the phrase "my 2 cents".

I don't ever speak for everyone - nor do I think that my group of friends do either. All I can say is that your question regarding homosexuals freely wanting to convert are usually coerced by their immediate surroundings (church, social circle, etc.). Maybe coerced is too strong a word, but you must see that conversion therapy has its base in Christian beliefs. The men and women might indeed be confused, but why try to convert them? Why not work with them to see what's at the root of their confusion? If someone truly wants to change their sexual orientation, then let them. But as I said before, it's not a matter of choice - it's who you are. Better to live with it and embrace who you are than to try and be someone you're not.

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Re: Sex...,.,,????
Reply #13 - 05/01/17 at 13:07:19

T And T Garage wrote on 05/01/17 at 09:33:37:

pg wrote on 05/01/17 at 08:38:47:

T And T Garage wrote on 05/01/17 at 07:29:37:

The question is the problem - but it's not your fault... let me try to explain:

I really don't take much of an issue with much of what you said. However, why do they need go to go the rest room with little girls? That is absurd!

Best regards,

Seriously?? "why do they need go to go the rest room with little girls" . ??

Who's "they"? Transgender people? What's the big deal??

A young persons well being in their developmental years should be more important. If you want to hang out with trannies in the rest room feel free, or maybe you do.....

Best regards,

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raydawg

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Re: Sex...,.,,????
Reply #14 - 05/01/17 at 13:08:30

Yes, I think we mostly agree on this.....
I am not to judge, nor do I want to even, that is just lame.
I would hazard a guess that society has been GREATLY influenced by religion, remains to be seen if a radical Muslim sect gains social and political clout, how they will deal with this issue.

I like your word coerced, you used, and I agree in total, BUT, I don't think it should be exhibited against someone desiring to leave the Gay community either.
Seems we found common ground, I will leave it at that, accepting the fact that some things I will never understand, a real, it is what it is, scenario Grin

PS: My brother-inlaw really enjoyed talking to me about this subject.
His family never talked about it. I believe they were embarrassed, why, I don't know.
When I met my wife, and engaged him, accepted him as he was, I believe the family opened up to an understanding of him as well.
We had much more gatherings, etc, and his mate was always welcomed.
It was so sad when he called my wife, before anyone else, and shared he has contacted AIDS.
We buried so many of his friends too Embarrassed

My wife nursed him until he had to go into hospice.
His mom, dad, brother, and other sister ( not my wife ) would not even eat with the same silverware he used, nor hug and kiss him....
So sad.

Funny story tho....
He was at our house.
He used the downstairs bathroom.
When he came out, he yelled the toilet was overflowing.
It was summer time, I was in shorts and barefoot.
I ran into the bathroom to lift the tank lid to get to the ballcock and flapper, that had stuck open, to close it...
I danced like I was walking on hot coals as I sped across the bathroom to get to the toilet....
They were laughing so hard at me, joking I had just caught his AIDS, that I couldn't help but laugh at myself too! Grin

I miss him.

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